Nothing more needs to be said.....

[MovieStuff]

Hi, Mr. Obvious!

I have no problem with engaging in a healthy debate about technical or even conceptual issues. But I draw the line when someone misrepresents my views or flat out lies about me or my work. There is a huge difference, there, so you will forgive me that restraint is not something you'll find in abundance when that happens.

I have given this some thought, and either Alex is putting everyone on with this senseless assault on my character or he is, without a doubt, the biggest asshole that I have ever run into in a discussion group. I hope he is the former, as he insinuates to represent the views of this forum, but the characteristics of the latter seems almost effortless for him. If it's for show, it's very convincing.

Roger

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited August 16, 2001).]

[Rigo]

Just to give some info...

k40 and k25 are available S16 through Kodak Spain.. only in 100 feet reels at $52 including procesing
http://www.kodak.es/ES/es/corp/XX_pelicula_16mm.shtml

If they have it in catalog I guess that someone uses it a lot. I?ll use it for sure when the moment would come.

And my opinion about all of this.. Shooting a feature in S8 has to do with budget, but shooting a music video in S8 I?m sure that has to do with the look.

However, People that use S8 love film. That?s for sure.




[This message has been edited by Rigo (edited August 16, 2001).]

[MrObvious]

Hello everyone!

Glad to see a new flame war has erupted. The poster and title is like a klaxon alarm.

Anyway... Oh yeah, I'm "Bloomsday", Marc S.

Hanxth:

I don't care who reads my comments, I'm not a backstabber. Both of these forums are open to the public, if I really wanted to slam someone behind their back I wouldn't do it on a public forum that shares a lot of members.

All that said, I disagree with MovieStuff, but only on one point (the rest he's pretty much spot on). I don't think that if 16mm gear were as cheap as super8 gear that super8 would necessarily disappear. It would take a REALLY hard hit, to be sure, but there will always be nutsos that will cling to something for totally unknown reasons. There are 9.5mm enthusiasts out there, you know!!!

Anyway, I like super8. Not only that, but I don't have an underwater rig for 16mm, but I DO have a Eumig Nautica. I don't have an intervalometer for 16mm (yet), but I do have several for super8! So on any given video-destined project I can mix all kinds of footage! 16mm for narrative, super8 for dream sequences, memories, special effects, and DV for laughs!

Finally, I didn't mention it in my post on the other board, but I thought it was silly for the original poster of that thread to boycott this board. There are plenty of interesting discussions on both of these boards, and plenty of innovative people. Anyone using the internet in this day and age should have a good knack for filtering out useless junk. If you can't do that, you'll go crazy (or invest in penny stocks, become a porn addict, or even play online casino!!!!)

Marc S.

[chas_ucla]

Hey guys!
I'm reading this from Portland, waiting for my wife to get dressed...glad to see Alex can't leave well enough alone and has to keep dredging up the shit...how exciting his life must be ... to spend hours a day on hostboard...you know, there is a feature where you can read every comment a poster has written...one of these days, when I have hours to spare, I'll go thru some of them to gain a bit of insight into this, uh, "character."

Yes, Alex, I did say you were an idiot on some other forum -- I believe it was Andreas.' While I personally don't know if you are an "idiot" in the clinical sense, much of what you post can be termed as idiotic, as I'm sure most of the hostboard would agree.

What I am curious about is

a.) for a guy who supports Super-8 so much, when do you have time to film when you are writing so much on this forum? What do you film in Super-8? If you are such a big supporter, why did you send Scott Sarver an e-mail stating, "STOP E-MAILING!" when he wrote to ask if you wanted to get together with us to work on the film for Flicker?

b.) if you are so upset with Roger's "position" on Super-8 why do you keep bringing up new posts? The Roger petition and now this one. Did you really think he wouldn't respond?

You either are an idiot or a joker without a life. There. I said it on this forum. And no, I'm not a loyal subject of Roger's, just a guy who wants to make S-8 and not see this forum degenerate into mindless debate.

CHAS

[Nigel]

I remember my fair share of debates with the members of this forum--It is what keeps me coming back--End of story.

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chas_ucla:
Hey guys!
I'm reading this from Portland, waiting for my wife to get dressed...glad to see Alex can't leave well enough alone and has to keep dredging up the shit...how exciting his life must be ... to spend hours a day on hostboard...you know, there is a feature where you can read every comment a poster has written...one of these days, when I have hours to spare, I'll go thru some of them to gain a bit of insight into this, uh, "character."

Yes, Alex, I did say you were an idiot on some other forum -- I believe it was Andreas.' While I personally don't know if you are an "idiot" in the clinical sense, much of what you post can be termed as idiotic, as I'm sure most of the hostboard would agree.

What I am curious about is

a.) for a guy who supports Super-8 so much, when do you have time to film when you are writing so much on this forum? What do you film in Super-8? If you are such a big supporter, why did you send Scott Sarver an e-mail stating, "STOP E-MAILING!" when he wrote to ask if you wanted to get together with us to work on the film for Flicker?

b.) if you are so upset with Roger's "position" on Super-8 why do you keep bringing up new posts? The Roger petition and now this one. Did you really think he wouldn't respond?

You either are an idiot or a joker without a life. There. I said it on this forum. And no, I'm not a loyal subject of Roger's, just a guy who wants to make S-8 and not see this forum degenerate into mindless debate.

CHAS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Status: U
X-Originating-IP: [24.41.50.150]
From: "Scott Sarver" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Alex...
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:51:09 -0700
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2001 06:51:09.0639 (UTC) FILETIME=[D628AD70:01C12168]

Alex

Oh my god, i feel pretty lame.

The last couple of days, I thought i was emailing you, telling you about my delays for not calling you, but I was emailing someone else!
I ended up emailing a Nizo dealer in Germany, and he sent me a few nasty replies...and I thought you went NUTS on me.
Thats the reason I didn't call you, so I apologize for the delay.
Its about midnight tonight, so I'll call tommorrow afternoon, and if your not there, I'll leave a message.

Scott

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It's amazing the things I get called over and over when I have not called anyone else those names.

-Alex

[MovieStuff]

Alex,

Well, "astute" certainly wouldn't be one of them.

Just because you require an entire lengthy post to commit your offenses when others do it in a single word doesn't, for a moment, mean that you are any less demeaning in your views. It simply means you are verbose and others don't want to waste anymore time in responding to your lunacy than they already have in reading it. In short, you reap what you sow, my friend. And the fact that people aren't rushing to your defense should make you take stock of your ever weakening position on this matter.

If you will simply stop with the lies and attempts to characterize me as something that I clearly am not, I will lay off the acidic responses. It is quite clear that it is not within your character to apologize, even when you know you are wrong. So a cease and desist is about the closest thing to a white flag I think I'll ever see here.

If not, then bring it on. I feel no compunction to stop as my character and reputation is on the line. You, on the other hand, simply want to win an argument.

Okay, I'll make this easy for you. I hate Super 8. Always have; even from the womb. Will never shoot with it again because it's too easy to use. I like more of a challenge so I prefer big heavy equipment with shallow depth of field and expensive film stock. Plus, I simply can't stand the look of Kodachrome; too sharp. In fact, I hate super 8 so much, I think I'll discontinue making any kind of equipment that might help super 8 film makers save money and get a better product. After all, they aren't REALLY serious film makers, are they? If they were, they wouldn't be shooting in Super 8 to begin with. Boy, am I ever glad I only made one award winning feature and two award winning shorts in Super 8, otherwise, people might begin to think I LIKED super 8.

There, is that what you want me to say?

Roger

[Hanthx]

Just in case anybody is curious, I kept sending email to Dr. Peters in Germany, instead of Alex. Dr. Peters in a Nizo dealer (in fact he has some really good deals going on if anyone is interested) and I kept sending him information on the Flicker Festival...where and when to meet. He didn't know what the f*@k I was talking about and sent me some nasty emails. Maybe he thought I was harrassing him. Unfortunately Chas and Stanley K were CC him, and poor guy...he didn't know what was going on.
Oh Well.

I thought I told you that Chas?
Makes for a funny conversation piece.

By the way, I haven't found out if I actually made it in to Flicker, so I give you guys another ring as soon as I find out.
Should be this week.

Back to San Diego again...ugh.

Scott

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MovieStuff:
Alex,

Well, "astute" certainly wouldn't be one of them.

Just because you require an entire lengthy post to commit your offenses when others do it in a single word doesn't, for a moment, mean that you are any less demeaning in your views. It simply means you are verbose and others don't want to waste anymore time in responding to your lunacy than they already have in reading it. In short, you reap what you sow, my friend. And the fact that people aren't rushing to your defense should make you take stock of your ever weakening position on this matter.

If you will simply stop with the lies and attempts to characterize me as something that I clearly am not, I will lay off the acidic responses. It is quite clear that it is not within your character to apologize, even when you know you are wrong. So a cease and desist is about the closest thing to a white flag I think I'll ever see here.

If not, then bring it on. I feel no compunction to stop as my character and reputation is on the line. You, on the other hand, simply want to win an argument.

Okay, I'll make this easy for you. I hate Super 8. Always have; even from the womb. Will never shoot with it again because it's too easy to use. I like more of a challenge so I prefer big heavy equipment with shallow depth of field and expensive film stock. Plus, I simply can't stand the look of Kodachrome; too sharp. In fact, I hate super 8 so much, I think I'll discontinue making any kind of equipment that might help super 8 film makers save money and get a better product. After all, they aren't REALLY serious film makers, are they? If they were, they wouldn't be shooting in Super 8 to begin with. Boy, am I ever glad I only made one award winning feature and two award winning shorts in Super 8, otherwise, people might begin to think I LIKED super 8.

There, is that what you want me to say?

Roger<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just gave a one sentence reply in my previous post on this topic and Roger responds by calling me "verbose"....

I previously cut and pasted numerous EXACT quotes from Roger, gave my opinion about those quotes...

.....and Roger calls me a liar for stating my opinion about his quotes....

so stating my opinion about Roger's quotes makes me a liar...(or is that too a lie Roger?)

To hear Roger state it now, throngs are now against Alex. (or, is that too a lie Roger?)

AFTER the original DP topic on this forum had already disappeared from page one and has started to sink into the archives....Chas calls me an idiot on another forum

...then accuses me of dredging up the past...when all I've done is respond to his and Roger's statements made after this issue was allegedly over!

There's a whole lot of flaming going on.

...and I ain't doing it...and of course, that too is a lie, right Roger?

-Alex



[This message has been edited by Alex (edited August 17, 2001).]

[MovieStuff]

The thing you AREN'T doing is admitting that you said I hated Super 8, which was the basis for this entire charade.

If you get flamed as a result, so be it. You brought this on yourself, Alex. You said I hated Super 8. When people called you on that lie, then you claimed they were ganging up on you. Then you denied claiming I hate Super 8. Then when you were called on that lie, too, you retreated into your usual song and dance about how people don't understand you and "woe is you" because people tell you what they think of you.

Tough.

Everyone understands that you lied, Alex. I never said I hated Super 8. I never even implied it. I am a huge supporter of Super 8 and have been for over a quater of a century. If you spent half as much time making super 8 movies as you do trying to bust my chops, you might just find that what's "true" for me is equally true for you, just as it is for anyone that actually MAKES films as opposed to someone that spends all his time in front of a computer critizing others that share this truth.

But again, let's not let Alex lead us down the predictable lane of distraction. Did you or did you not say I hated Super 8? And, how about that documentation about K40 35mm motion picture film? We're still waiting...

Roger

------------------
Roger Evans
MovieStuff http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited August 17, 2001).]